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Dark is Rising movie: Christianized, or Tashlanized? - Nothing New Under The Sun
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bellatrys
bellatrys
Dark is Rising movie: Christianized, or Tashlanized?
So I was thinking a little more about this whole Dark is Rising mess, and upon further consideration the niggling sense of massive incongruity suddenly snapped into focus. If you haven't read the books, it may be difficult to convey just how great a gulf there is between Ave et Eva, between the book/s (they seem to claim to be taking bits from several in the series, just like Disney did to Prydain) and what we know so far of the film treatment, from the online trailer/s as well as interviews with the director, screenwriter, and actors. But I will do my best.

kiandra_fire has helpfully made a comprehensive table breaking down all these known discrepancies, and providing necessary context. The most prominent point has been the claim of eliminating or "downplaying" (whatever that means) the pagan elements in the originals, by an admittedly-evangelical-Christian company dedicated to producing works of sound Christian entertainment - at least as they define "Christianity."

So what exactly have they downplayed, and what added, that would constitute taking out the heathenry and putting in the Gospels?

Well, judging by the trailer and the descriptions of the script and shooting by those who are making it, they have taken out - in addition to the King Arthur element , which I might remind you was according to Tolkien too Christian a mythos to work as proper epic fantasy - they have taken out all of the moral ambiguity and inner struggle in the originals, and replaced it with sex, greed, and violence.

This is not a joke, not me being silly here. Will in the books is unselfish, concerned for his family's well-being ahead of his own, a serious and recollected kid who looks out for others. In the movie, at least from the trailer footage, he's a thoughtless brat who only sees in his newfound powers a chance to show off cool superpowers and give nothing in return, whining worse than Young!Luke to Ben Kenobi about having to go save the world. And Luke had more responsibilities, and fewer allies and resources, at the time!

Then, there's the question of motivation: to make sense to stodgy unimaginative grown-up Middle Americans, "make it appeal to young people today™", they've made Will older, from middle-school to a hulking high-schooler*. And, of course, he both wants sex in the person of the introduced love-interest for him, and is stereotypically afraid to talk to girls...and the motivations of the Rider are also reduced, as reported, to sexual jealousy, and all the complexities of jealousy and betrayal and devotion-gone-awry, all the themes of Rivalry (in the Taoist sense) and Redemption, and the question of the past failures and mistakes of the Good Guys, are thus eliminated.

But this is small potatoes, or at least not as flashy as the other big changes, tho' they're all part of the same problem. In the books, the Good Guys are limited because they can't wield the same brutal powers as the Bad Guys, part of that whole "being Good Guys" thing you know, and their weapons aren't weapons at all, but mystical forces which, in the end, come down to loyalty and trust and generosity - aka faith, hope, love, and the greatest of these is love.

In the film, so we hear, Merriman "Merry" Lyon's favorite weapon is a mace. The elder lady who in the books is wheelchair-bound, frail with age and ill-health, but still valiant...in the film is fully ambulatory - and reportedly wields a sword-cane. And Will uses The Force to fling his enemies and rivals about like ninepins, in the clips we see in the trailer. We are told that it is a cross between Harry Potter and Indiana Jones, which bodes not well for a story which is originally as much about the interior life as it is about Celtic mythology...

It may well be, that The Dark is Rising is unfilmable, faithfully, and that it were better to have left well enough alone. Myself, I tend to think that (having seen film adaptations of Austen novels and Shakespeare plays that mirabile dictu, worked, not to mention Kurosawa) it is not necessarily impossible to make a moving, dramatic, interesting movie where the magical and miraculous shine like small diamonds in the mundane world, that is to say casting rainbows upon everything, when the light strikes them, rather than loading on the mana-powered explosions like a supernatural Michael Bay.

But it truly is fascinating that, in the interests of Christianizing the paganism of Cooper, they have replaced selflessness with grasping ambition ("Kingdoms of the world? Gimme! Oh wait, what's this sacrifice stuff? Noway!") and weakness of the body with worldly power, in Our Heroes - and the nonviolent (though very much "grey" and disturbing) spiritual power and authority of the Old Ones with mere brute battle and force. ISTR something about "those who live by the sword," but that must have been in one of my pagan philosophers or myths...


* Someone on a thread equated all this to having a film of The Hobbit in which Bilbo is no longer a halfling, and goes on a quest with his dog Spot, and all that Old English literature stuff is taken out, and he kicks the dragon's ass in a fight - which is a pretty good way of describing it. It's important that the heroes be small, and weaker, and improbable, and the brute force and earthly advantage be on the side of the Dark - no matter how uncool it makes the Good Guys look, and how much we'd rather Identify with the hulking musclebound swaggerer...</lj>

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acaciaonnastik From: acaciaonnastik Date: July 14th, 2007 04:44 am (UTC) (Link)
~cringes~ I've never actually read those books. And even I know that's not right.
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: July 14th, 2007 11:22 am (UTC) (Link)

You'd probably like them a lot

quests and mysteries and Brooding Menaces and people whose deadly power is rather Auditor and Glome-like than oi-we-kick-you-inna-head, and lots of doublecrosses and not knowing who to trust, and ghost ships and skeleton horses and the Wild Hunt - I suspect that Cooper is more responsible than any other author for the fact that so many Americans know who Herne is, and that Cornwall exists let alone is associated with Arthur...
sajia From: sajia Date: July 14th, 2007 05:16 am (UTC) (Link)
Saw the trailer today when I went to see Harry Potter (a good one, by the way). I think you would really like Bridge to Terabithia (have I bugged you about this before?).
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: July 14th, 2007 11:19 am (UTC) (Link)

yes

and it was brought up a lot in the DiR threads as a counterexample of good changes to a book. The author's son apparently worked on the film, which I'm sure made a difference.
thirstygirl From: thirstygirl Date: July 14th, 2007 05:16 am (UTC) (Link)
oh ouch. another adaptation to avoid then. On the other hand you have reminded me of how good the books are so now I'm going to re-read them.
randwolf From: randwolf Date: July 14th, 2007 07:16 am (UTC) (Link)

"It's all in Plato"

I always thought that those Cooper books--it's been years--were fairly Christian in their--there must be a word for it, but I don't know it--overarching ethical order; the pagan content was bent to Christian purposes, much as Lewis bent the pagan content of his earlier books to Christian purposes. (Till We Have Faces is, I think, as much Platonist as Christian.) If the pagan content is removed, the christian content is also lost, and the book is lost as well. How is it that the vision of Walden Media is so limited despite an apparently sincere effort? A simple failure of artistry? Or...?
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: July 14th, 2007 11:18 am (UTC) (Link)

The thing is that it's, for want of a better word, "Natural Law Ethics" reflective

The idea that Christianity, or the Judeo-Christian tradition, has a patent on ethics - or even the Classical-Judeo-Christian combo - is something that CSL himself put some effort into debunking, with the shockingly multiculturalist book "The Abolition of Man" and all the illustrations from cultures around the world throughout history of what he called "the Universal Tao," borrowing of course from Lao Tzu, which is sometimes translated as "the Greater Way," and which sounds so platonist/Christian to the ears of Westerners that some Hegemony flacks had to come up with a theory as to how Jesuits could have secretly rewritten Chinese texts to insert Christian teachings in and "fool" them into thinking it was part of their own tradition (!)

There are explicit criticisms in Cooper of the narrow and arrogant attitude - parochialism, if you will - of Christianity as The One True Way, in the presentation of the local Vicar in DiR as typically smug and blind in his benevolent certainty that *his* holy symbols etc were the source of all their defense in the battle. --Which was what most everyone was assuming they were going to take out, when it first came out about who was doing the film.

I think it's very, *very* ironic that "Christianizing" something in the US today means - to its *defenders* - taking out the compassion and weak vessel-ness of the Good Guys and replacing it with explosions and ass-kickingness and physical battles. It's almost beyond parody - especially since the producer claims to want to make Hollywood "more peaceful."

How is it that the vision of Walden Media is so limited despite an apparently sincere effort? A simple failure of artistry? Or...?

Well, this is the same guy, oil magnate Anschutz, who brought us "Passion of the Christ" (of which I have said a fair bit in the past), teamed up with the director of "The Path to 911" - the theocrat-funded anti-Clinton fictionalized hit piece which was so blatant that even Brent Bozell blenched at.

I also think it fascinating that the author of this article doesn't find anything twitch-inducing in the idea of someone who's all about the profits (remember they got in a fight with Gibson over the money from Passion), preaching to others' children the virtues of self-sacrifice - just like Bill "Slots" Bennett, there.
thirstygirl From: thirstygirl Date: July 14th, 2007 12:37 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: The thing is that it's, for want of a better word, "Natural Law Ethics" reflective

one of the things that struck me, as a small Christian-raised child, when reading these books was the Vicar and just how *Wrong* he was to believe that he held the Only Truths. It was one of those moments, you know?
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: July 14th, 2007 01:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

that's exactly the sort of thing they don't want happening

altho' I'm fascinated by how they *have* compromised and are allowing "the occult" in the door - I mean, we're talking about a bunch of people who include a good many members who are seriously dubious about allowing The Wizard of Oz (good witches!) LOTR because, you know, Gandalf's a wizard, and only some of them are willing to go "okay but really it's not Magic like the old Testament prohibits, because he's an angel in disguise" (what they'd do if they knew there was an original feminine form of curunir with all the benevolent implications, I don't know) and even Narnia as dangerously heretical, what with the guest appearance of Bacchus - there's a large element of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em," as with the whole "Christian Rock" and "Christian Alternative Music" movements that Slacktivist has addressed.

It's like they've realized that they can't stop their children (by and large) from wanting to read fairy tales and modern versions thereof, and so they've decided that so long as they can create loopholes whereby it's not REALLY magic, it's just Jesus!Power, or at least enough work out a Might Be Jesus Really mental reservation, they'll let them read/watch fantasy that isn't explicitly a Christian Morality Tale, now.
thirstygirl From: thirstygirl Date: July 14th, 2007 01:59 pm (UTC) (Link)

as compared to

my father, who is a vicar, pointing out that x and y and z all contain elements of the same "truth" even though they come from different cultures so maybe this is something that we should consider as part of a larger truth that may or may not be another name for "god"- regardless of the particular name of your deity.

But then I guess that all depends on whether your trope is threatened by the existence of other tropes, or whether you can construct some sort of meta-narrative. Maybe it comes down to a fundamental difference between 'we are all story-telling monkeys, stories are how we make sense of the universe' vs 'argh! I'm not a monkey! and the very existence of apes threatens my non-monkey-ness!'

{obligatory disclaimer: it is very late and I may be rambling
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: July 14th, 2007 02:45 pm (UTC) (Link)

Oh, he wouldn't be considered a Real True Christian

by these folks, quite apart from any other inter-denominational snobbery (only *we* are the TRUE church, neener neener heretics!) because by definition anyone who is ecumenical and not all rah-rah-hellfire and rules is failing to qualify by their standards of what is and isn't Christianity. Even - or rather - especially ministers.

{obligatory disclaimer: it is very late and I may be rambling

Nope, that's a very good summary of the recoil reaction to other paradigms, speaking as someone who used to be part of that type of Christianity, albeit on the fringes (with our bohemian art books and pagan Bulfinches' Mythology and whatnot...)
randwolf From: randwolf Date: July 15th, 2007 01:14 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: The thing is that it's, for want of a better word, "Natural Law Ethics" reflective

A-hem! I am aware that many cultures have similar solutions to ethical problems and it's even possible that Platonist and Taoist ideas had a common source--Pythagoras and Lao-Tzu were approximate contemporaries and Plato was accounted a Pythagorean by the ancients. Jews have an idea of good and evil very different from Christians; the Christian idea may perhaps have been influenced by Zoroastrianism. In any event, it seemed to me when I read them that the ethical underpinnings of the *Dark* series had some fairly specifically Christian elements, though it is definitely a liberal Christianity; one would have much different books without the fairly Christian ideas of good and evil the author relies on.

I wonder how much creative input Anschutz has, really; he may just be more interested in deal making--that is after all one of the ways to make a fortune in oil.
randwolf From: randwolf Date: July 16th, 2007 01:22 am (UTC) (Link)

Other ethics

By the way, if you want to learn some really different ethical ideas, study pre-Columbian Mesoamerica. A human pattern, but a very different one. My girlfriend has been digging into pre-Columbian Mexica culture and their ideas were very different--for one thing, they believed in something very much like entropy. The conquest of Mesoamerica has all the elements of a tragic story of alien contact--not only in the failures of communication, but ecological invasions and diseases.
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 25th, 2007 03:27 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: "It's all in Plato"

I'm willing to bet that nobody at Walden have read the final volume 'Silver on the Tree', because Merlin's final quote might just have given them pause.......

"For Drake is no longer in his hammock, children, nor is Arthur somewhere sleeping, and you may not lie idly expecting the second coming of anybody now, because the world is yours and it is up to you. Now especially since man has the strength to destroy this world, it is the responsibility of man to keep it alive, in all its beauty and marvellous joy."
miracleofbeing From: miracleofbeing Date: July 14th, 2007 04:28 pm (UTC) (Link)

You have said *everything* I wanted to but couldn't.

I was too wordlessly brain-slapped when I first found out about the travesty Walden Media has created of a work that has been close to my heart since childhood; I simply couldn't come up with the words to describe how offended and disturbed I was. I must admit that I have one thing in common with the actor playing Merriman Lyon: I, too, hope that they don't make any more movies.
furikku From: furikku Date: July 14th, 2007 05:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
Argh. Argh argh argh. Which Bible were these people reading, the Gospel according to St. Bastard?! Someone make them get out of my religion, pls.
eruvadhril From: eruvadhril Date: August 2nd, 2007 10:00 am (UTC) (Link)
the Gospel according to St. Bastard?!

Hooray for random Eddie Izzard quotes!
raincitygirl From: raincitygirl Date: July 14th, 2007 08:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
I could've sworn I already left this comment, but I guess the internet ate it.

Anyway, Take 2, the part that really irritates the hell out of me is that Cooper already WROTE that character. You know, the rebellious, angry teenager who is ostracised as a freak by his peer group, and who feels unloved at home (abandoned by his mother, and raised by an emotionally distant, devoutly religious adoptive father). He's called Bran Davies. And when Cooper created him, she gave him valid, canonical, PLOT-RELEVANT reasons for feeling this way.

The adaptors have completely butchered Will until he's unrecognisable and his motivations are entirely different (and butchered his family, to boot) for frivolous reasons, they've ensured that if and when they ever get around to making The Grey King, they've badly weakened Bran Davies as a character. Not that I want them anywhere near The Grey King, but you just know it being a book series was likely a selling point when they were pitching the idea to the money people. Because that way, if it's a hit, there are built-in sequels.
lyorn From: lyorn Date: July 14th, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
I just realized that we are going to be up to our ears in movie-based fanfic. (shudders)

(Deleted comment)
tlachtga From: tlachtga Date: July 14th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't have anything intelligent to say, because I'm just shocked and heartbroken. The Dark Is Rising series sits--literally--sits on my shelves next to Prydain and Narnia. All hardbacks I went searching for specifically. These were the books that made me--I've read them so many times I can probably sit and recite them start to finish. I still read The Dark Is Rising (the book itself) every winter solstice, and The Silver on the Tree for summer solstice. This is my young adulthood. These books--Cooper's and Alexander's--are why I got into Celtic myth in the first place--which is what I spend 50%+ of my waking time researching, and hopefully going back to school for. These books mean more to me than I can probably intelligently explain.

So to read this--I didn't know there was a movie, I haven't seen the trailer, and I don't know that I want to now--makes me so angry, so frustrated, that I don't really know what to say. I mean, when they screwed up The Black Cauldron, at least it was mostly incompetence and not right-wing religious malice banking on the fantasy buck as a way to promote their agenda.

I just... damn it.
From: anna_wing Date: July 15th, 2007 10:08 am (UTC) (Link)
Ahem. It is a truth that should be universally acknowledged that if a book or books is a classic work of English children's literature, it is in need of being turned into a BBC TV serial. Which I believe has happened to at least one book in the series. "Greenwitch", I think.
(Deleted comment)
the_resa From: the_resa Date: July 15th, 2007 07:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
I haven't read the original series but ...
What I found the most disturbing was the need to make his family abusive. What is up with this?

The Harry Potter movies have it too (haven't read the books), with the additional headache of including the idea that it is somehow noble to tolerate abuse -- to forgive and forget, and not act to stop it. Probably under the sickening belief that What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger. It's the School of Hard Knocks where Anger or Revenge is always bad. Or whatever twisted rationalization makes us think that this kind of crap is somehow so very good for us.

Can you tell that I used to buy into this stuff? Yup. Few people are so rabidly "No-Smoking" than the ones that just quit.


megpie71 From: megpie71 Date: July 15th, 2007 09:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
For the sake of completeness, in Cooper's original books, it's quite clear that while Will is the youngest of a large family, he isn't neglected, scapegoated, or disregarded in any way. He's unusual, yes, in that he's one of at least seven children (I'm not positive, but I do seem to recall a couple of sisters in there, which combined with his position as seventh son of a seventh son implies a rather large sibling group) which in this day and age is rather unusual, simply because large families tend to be the exception rather than the norm. But his parents love all their children.

The lack of violence in the original stories was a big selling point for me when I read them during high school - given I started reading fantasy stories from about age six (when I started in on Narnia) and was already well and truly familiar with the standard sword-and-sorcery Extruded Fantasy Product just-add-hero quest sequence, one of the things which appealed about the Dark Is Rising sequence was the fact that the good guys won *without* needing to hit people with heavy chunks of metal.

I do hope that if they're going to continue with these, they're willing to tackle Greenwitch in the spirit it was originally written - namely that the quest is completed almost by accident, due to one person's generous wish. Of course, that would mean putting some kind of value on generosity of the spirit, which I have a feeling isn't an appropriately "Christian" virtue.
lyorn From: lyorn Date: July 15th, 2007 09:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
The description of the Dursleys in the first two or three Harry Potter books is straight out of Roald Dahl over-the-top bizarre evil too-stupid-to-tie-their-shoelaces villains. I guess "take that, Charles Dickens!" is one of the traditions of British children's literature.

Cooper, of course, goes for a more realistic and serious style, where magic and mundane are interwoven instead of being caricatures of each other, and does not have evil clowns.

After HP fell into a kind of seriousness with book three, the Dursleys have become a lot more human, and in a way nastier, because they are more like people you know and less like boggarts from a fairy tale. Of course, in switching roles they illuminate Dumbledore's weakness and the cynism of the wizarding world in general -- but again, reading what some people have said about the British public school system, there might still be a lot of well-placed snark here.
From: anna_wing Date: July 16th, 2007 12:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
The child-abuse thing seems to pop up everywhere, both as a sort of synecdoche for villainy and as the all-purpose reason for it. It's very strange, as if authors or scriptwriters cannot imagine why anyone would do evil deeds other than because their family was nasty to them when they were children. What happened to greed, callousness and ethnic/sexual/random-personal hatred, which remain widely popular in Real Life?

And on the other side, they cannot seem to imagine evil deeds that are unconnected with sex in any form. Young writers of badfic are also very prone to this.
the_resa From: the_resa Date: July 16th, 2007 02:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
(nods) I get so very, very tired of that.
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 16th, 2007 03:51 am (UTC) (Link)

just a little temperance

I'm disappointed to read such vitriolic attacks on Christianity and Christians in the comments. I'm just as disappointed as the rest of you about the changes to the book. I'm also Christian. Blanket smears like "generosity of the spirit is not an appropriately *Christian* virtue" just show that their authors wish to belong to another camp as cartoonish as the "crazy right-wing Christians."

One of the medieval Christian virtues is Temperance. (Look at Spenser, for a start.) There are many Christians around today who still believe in the path of moderation, generosity, and forgiveness. They just don't make good media villains like the others. It is a sign of bigotry to use the terrible artistic taste of one production company as a reflection on the state of an entire religion. Those of you who spout such comments with very limited experience need to go spend some time in poverty-stricken countries and see who is helping the people there, sharing their often abominable living conditions, as well as who is willing to risk their lives for "aliens." Here in America, there are many good people who identify themselves as Christian, doing their best in small ways every day to ease the material and spiritual suffering of others across all social boundaries. I know lots of these people. I hope to be as good as they are to others. I am sorry for those of you who have encountered hateful behavior from Christians, and I have no problem acknowledging that those people are out there. Just don't use their bigotry as an excuse for your own.
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: July 16th, 2007 10:35 am (UTC) (Link)

I guess it doesn't occur to you

that some of us could have been RAISED to be hateful Christians, eh? And that's why we're upset about it, because we know it from the inside and have rejected it? --That maybe we actually *do* know a bit about how much good work is being done by missionaries, because some of us actually KNOW people who went off to "save souls" in other countries, and aren't very impressed with the results any more? That maybe you're being bigoted, or at least narrowminded, by assuming that the ONLY possible reason that anyone could have for criticizing your group is that they're ignorant? (Oh yeah, I was raised to believe that too. Then I actually went out into the world, and started doing some reasearch.)

Also, beams, eyes, what-ho? Start cleaning your own house of bigotry before you go insisting that everyone else treat you with respect that you haven't earned. And have the courage to sign your posts, 'kay? It's not very impressive preaching if you can't even bring yourself to use a handle, Anonymous Selfrighteous Christian.

But then, I guess you're as brave as you are intelligent, since you didn't even understand the point of the rant, which is that these self-styled Christian media moguls are *not* living up to (or out) the Gospels, and that the supposedly-pagan values of the original books actually ARE consonant with the Gospels, but these people like Anschutz are very *bad* at actually being Christian, and are instead pure hypocrites.

Which is, alas, far from uncommon and in fact is what most of us encounter, when we deal with [other] self-styled Christians in real life" as well as online.
From: anna_wing Date: July 16th, 2007 11:37 am (UTC) (Link)

Oh, I think great temperance and indeed Christian forbearance has been shown

Those of you who spout such comments with very limited experience

What do you know of the experience (or age, sex, ethnicity, religion, nationality, profession, civic status or indeed anything else) of any of the commenters on this LJ or any other? Do think about that before you try to patronise anyone on the Internet.

need to go spend some time in poverty-stricken countries and see who is helping the people there, sharing their often abominable living conditions, as well as who is willing to risk their lives for "aliens."

Actually, quite often it's organisations such as Medecins Sans Frontieres, or the United Nations Children's Fund. These bodies do in fact help the people in the countries where they work, share their often abominable living conditions and not just risk their lives but quite often lose them (they don't call anyone "aliens", by the way, since they recognise all humans as such, which is something that you might want to think about doing). Somehow they manage this without attempting to preach a particular religious ideology and certainly without requiring people to abandon their own roots and culture and adopt those of "alien" missionaries.

Here in America, there are many good people who identify themselves as Christian, doing their best in small ways every day to ease the material and spiritual suffering of others across all social boundaries

And I applaud them. There's plenty of room for that among their own fellow citizens:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parenting/05/08/mothers.index/index.html

From: (Anonymous) Date: July 16th, 2007 03:51 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Oh, I think great temperance and indeed Christian forbearance has been shown

Just one more note: I put "aliens" in quotation marks for a reason.

And the reason I assume limited experience is because *no one* with any wisdom assumes things like the statements you have made about *any* major world religion.

Perhaps you haven't considered the fact that I may have been a hateful non-Christian myself at some point in my life, full of the same kind of bile that I read in *some* (not all) of the posters here. My point is not that criticism is not in order, but that it is a more humane attitude to assume that all people of any creed or none deserve respect until they prove otherwise, not that people somehow have to *prove themselves worthy* to you, the arbiter of morality.

While I don't think it's very likely that this post will cause you to reflect on your own hatefulness . . . (and I'm not asking you to convert - to the contrary, I've found that hatefulness knows no boundaries, and that hateful non-Christians are often the same people who make hateful Christians. Case in point - the poster who admitted to being raised as a hateful Christian, and doesn't realize that nothing has changed except the direction of his/her hatred and anger.) . . . I do hope that others who read this might at least see some kind of objection to hatefulness in any form - no matter who generates it. That's what I mean by temperance, but you seem to have conveniently ignored that word.
sajia From: sajia Date: July 16th, 2007 03:59 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Oh, I think great temperance and indeed Christian forbearance has been shown

You have obviously not been reading this livejournal long enough, if you came away with the impression that bellatrys is a "hateful Christian". Yes, she strongly criticizes Chrstians, but in the same spirit that Jesus drove the moneychangers from the temple (check out her Tashlan post to get a sense of where she is coming from.)
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 16th, 2007 04:21 pm (UTC) (Link)

You're right

To be fair, it is clear that bellatrys considers herself to be a "real" Christian and to be harshly criticizing others from her own "real Christian" vantagepoint. Lest you accuse me of doing the same thing, I don't consider myself to be a better or smarter Christian than anyone else, and I'm not making my critique on that basis -- I'm just trying to point out that is, like Christ, you want to gently influence the world toward love, the way to do so is not to rage and make personal attacks *on anyone,* but to speak more moderately and with more consideration.

And I am making the mistake of conflating several posters' comments without making distinctions between them.

I should not have used the word "bigotry" in my first post - it's too inflammatory. "Anger" is a better way to put it, since the anger in the posts is clear, while bigotry is a more general condition that I can't ascertain from these posts. So, please accept my apology and consider it a matter of whether raw anger is a good thing to put out in our world, and whether those on the side of the "Light" should do so. Personally, I think that it's easy to excuse one's own anger as righteous, but if your cause is truly good, then anger is dangerous and unnecessary - your measured conviction will be just as effective. Jesus may have been angry when he threw out the moneychangers, but I think he was in a better position to know whether he his anger was righteous than are any of us.

If I didn't think that the posters on this board were likely to have a lot of good in them, I wouldn't have bothered posting. I don't go around arguing for the sake of argument on the internet.
Just your admiration for the Cooper series shows that in some ways, we would all be of like mind. That's why I think it's important to try to unite rather than dividing, as some of the comments about Christians and Christianity on this board are likely to do. If I had been better at phrasing my first post, maybe I would have been more convincing. I do think you can discuss mistakes made by Christians without being offensive or coming off as hateful, and I guess that's how I would prefer to leave it.
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 24th, 2007 02:31 am (UTC) (Link)
If anyone is willing, please leave a comment regarding your feelings about this movie at:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0484562/

and

http://www.walden.com/walden/mboard/forumdisplay.php?f=9
(the Walden Media Forum for Dark is Rising)
summersdream From: summersdream Date: July 26th, 2007 06:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hi, wandered in here through some links and I just had to say... I thought Hollywood had gotten over this whole slaughtering-books-without-thought phase. Sigh. This whole thing looks atrocious. What posessed them to cut out the Arthurian ties? No, really. I mean, that kills off half the sequels and scrambles the plot right to hell. They should at least be looking at the sequel problem since, you know, sequels will make them money. Logic obviously left the building on this one.
eruvadhril From: eruvadhril Date: August 2nd, 2007 10:09 am (UTC) (Link)
I found myself here thanks to Google, and would just like to say: IAWTP.

I shall be seeing the film because 1)Christopher Eccleston is in it, and 2) I derive a sick sort of pleasure from seeing a book I like completely butchered on-screen. It gives me something to rant about, and lets me introduce other people to the books.
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: August 2nd, 2007 12:00 pm (UTC) (Link)

Always make the best of things, what!

It gives me something to rant about, and lets me introduce other people to the books.

This is very true.
miracleofbeing From: miracleofbeing Date: August 8th, 2007 06:31 am (UTC) (Link)
Wow. Do you mind if I borrow that icon?
silk_noir From: silk_noir Date: August 20th, 2007 02:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
Wonderful points you make. I was unable to watch the trailer, myself.

Might as well arm Christ with a couple of gats in the Garden of Gethsemane and bust a cap in all those Romans' asses.

It's just foul. Looks like the Dark made this movie.
From: fuzzbean Date: September 22nd, 2007 03:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hi. I found my way here from authorblog / kiandra_fire, and I'd like to friend you, if that's okay.
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: September 22nd, 2007 03:05 pm (UTC) (Link)

sure, feel free to lurk or comment,

whatever you want, this is a very laid-back (some might say "lazy," others "insane") blog/community. We also don't do "On Topic/Off Topic" either, if you notice something you think I/we should be aware of, just post about it in the latest thread!
From: fuzzbean Date: September 22nd, 2007 03:09 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: sure, feel free to lurk or comment,

Thanks! It seemed pretty laid back but hey, I figured better to ask :)
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: September 22nd, 2007 03:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

N/P

Courtesy (as opposed to "civility") is never amiss!
From: (Anonymous) Date: October 25th, 2007 08:28 am (UTC) (Link)

Hello

Hello!
How are you?
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 5th, 2007 05:11 am (UTC) (Link)

just what i needed

i'm eric. joining a couple boards and looking
forward to participating. hehe unless i get
too distracted!

eric
From: (Anonymous) Date: December 22nd, 2007 09:40 pm (UTC) (Link)

The Dark is Rising Series

Read the books when I was twelve. Loved them. Bought them again at 27 and reread them every so often. Each time is a feast. I have not seen the movie, reviews so far have shown me that it is very far removed from the books, so I am not sure I want to be so disappointed, so may not bother. Such a pity, could have been brilliant in the right hands. Dona Simon
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