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I don't believe it... - Nothing New Under The Sun
(the ARX acta diurna)
bellatrys
bellatrys
I don't believe it...
Not only does Ariosto have one set of twins, brother and sister, who look so much alike that after the sister's hair is cut by a doctor following an injury, nobody can tell them apart, but--

Another pair of warriors, male and female - who have had some UST going on before this although they both have other love interests as well - are told out of nowhere by the ghost of a kindly old wizard who has been protecting the young man that they're ALSO twins, separated as infants after their parents were betrayed and murdered by relatives, and the wizard was only able to keep custody of the boy.--

I am NOT making this up.

--Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

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Comments
ckd From: ckd Date: January 1st, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
Is there any debate about which of the other characters shot first?
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: January 1st, 2009 08:52 pm (UTC) (Link)

Well, in the remakes/fanfics I've found so far

There seems to be more "Insert new OFC", "Make original female chara male/merge several charas", "Add more dramatic confrontations to scenes which seem anticlimactic", "Add more SFX" - but I wouldn't be surprised if there was such a "Reverse order of events/characterization" change to be found, as well!
fledgist From: fledgist Date: January 1st, 2009 08:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
This sounds as if it was written on an Osborne or a Kray computer -- a CPM system (CPM standing for "Creaky Plot Mechanism").
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: January 1st, 2009 08:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

I know--

Obviously nobody would *think* of using such a device nowadays.
fledgist From: fledgist Date: January 1st, 2009 09:22 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I know--

No, they'd be using a MAC -- Massively Asinine Characterisation.
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: January 2nd, 2009 02:07 am (UTC) (Link)

Oh, you know what I left out?

Plus, also, suckled in the wilderness by lions -- take that, Romulus and Remus!

fledgist From: fledgist Date: January 2nd, 2009 04:05 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Oh, you know what I left out?

I keep saying, I want to have a lion as a housepet so I can put a sign out in the yard: "Beware of the cat."
From: violaswamp Date: January 1st, 2009 09:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
...wow.

This, tangentially, is why I don't believe in criticizing stories simply because they're "cliched." Because what's the difference between a cliche and a classic? Answer: the writing quality. NOT sheer originality: everything has been done before in *some* form or another. What matters is how you *use* the trope. You can use it in a novel, interesting way or in a dull way.
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: January 2nd, 2009 02:05 am (UTC) (Link)

Yeah --

if it was *exactly* the same, Ben's Force ghost would have broken up a lightsaber duel between them over a stupid misunderstanding by the revelation....

...which, you know, would actually have been cooler than 90% of what actually happened in ROTJ.

Oh, well.
fridgepunk From: fridgepunk Date: January 2nd, 2009 07:18 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Yeah --

Of course you realise that they did that (sort of) in the expanded universe</i>?
(Deleted comment)
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: January 2nd, 2009 02:19 am (UTC) (Link)

I haven't yet gotten hold of a copy to compare

with the Harington and Rose public domain versions, but I know that the Barbara Reynolds Penguin version has some recommenders, among modern translations. (She was a friend of Dorothy Sayers and worked on the old Penguin Divine Comedy translation that Sayers began.) There are also highly-rated prose editions like this one from OUP, too.
voxwoman From: voxwoman Date: January 1st, 2009 11:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
Should we blame Joseph Campbell for this one?

is this proof of time travel? Or just like one of my friends points out, when we're looking at a coffee table book about the Lascaux paintings: "the human race peaked 40,000 years ago"
bellatrys From: bellatrys Date: January 2nd, 2009 02:02 am (UTC) (Link)

well, admittedly it's been years since I read Hero w/1K Faces

but I don't remember him allowing for any variation of "Dude, your SISTER!" in his monomyth - he was iirc pretty adamant that girls don't *get* to be Heroes at all, just Precious Objects.

Which may account for the signal absence of Renaissance & Baroque Epic figuring into his Grand Unified Theory of Story, since WHOA UR A GIRL! was such a popular and crucial element of both serious and comic drama back then... and is also part of why I have always been doubtful of how much of a retcon the whole "TOTALLY BASED ON 1K HERO!" of Lucas' it is...
voxwoman From: voxwoman Date: January 2nd, 2009 03:01 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: well, admittedly it&#39;s been years since I read Hero w/1K Faces

Not his writings, directly... I was referring to his consultation with Lucas for the first film (and likely the entire first trilogy).

And now I'm wondering about "Hidden Fortress" - if Kurasawa based that on a Japanese or a Western story...
nenya_kanadka From: nenya_kanadka Date: January 2nd, 2009 09:54 am (UTC) (Link)
That is pretty damn awesome.

...and also goes to show why there is a whole page on TVtropes called "I Am Not Making This Up. " :D
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 7th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC) (Link)

Off topic, but interesting Ariosto tidbit I read today

A later canto (I'm afraid I don't remember which one) contains one of the very few cases in literature of a woman raping a man, the story of Gabrina and Filandro. It starts out as the regular "Joseph and Potiphar's wife" type story (Gabrina is the wife of Filandro's best friend), with the jilted woman crying rape, but is unique (amongst versions I've read, at least) in that Gabrina eventually manages to force Filandro to marry her, after tricking him into killing her husband (she gives him the ultimatum of marrying her or having the crime exposed).

Also sadly fairly unique among female-on-male rape stories in that Filandro doesn't enjoy it or come to love his rapist (who is, as far as I could tell, as young and beautiful as all the other maidens in the poem), but reacts with the same hate as anyone would under those circumstances. Eventually, she figures out how much he loathes her and poisons him. I assume she gets her comeuppance eventually.

I've just never seen this story told before. A healthy, young straight man turning down the love of a beautiful girl? And not enjoying it when she forces him to submit on pain of just about the worst legal and social consequences you can imagine? It's sad to imagine how much guts it would take to tell that story today, when the general consensus seems to be that men always consent (with a woman, at least).

- Chris
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