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Heisenberg's Bastard, part I, or, The whole flock of ships*-- - Nothing New Under The Sun
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Heisenberg's Bastard, part I, or, The whole flock of ships*--
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From: jlb2009 Date: December 9th, 2009 06:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

Seeking help

Your forgot to mention that for decades now he has also regularly offered to go with you anywhere, anytime, to any professional counselor or other form of professional help of your choosing, so that these problems can be worked through and, to whatever extent is possible, resolved.
rozasharn From: rozasharn Date: December 9th, 2009 08:38 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

"The problem was always that he would say he was going to (or had) turn over a new leaf, and thus it was unfair to use pattern recognition in self defense be wary of him behaving the same way, and we were obliged to act as though amnesiac, to pretend that the past had never happened over and over and over again, and that it was totally unjust to be afraid of repeat bad behavior and to think that it was starting up again - this proved that we were all bad-faith actors who wouldn't let him be virtuous! Charlie Brown must let Sally hold the ball again, or be a wicked judgmental sort who deserves to have it yanked away from him."

Also, the prospect of being in the same room as one's abuser isn't an offer, it's a threat.
From: jlb2009 Date: December 9th, 2009 10:40 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

"Being in the same room together" was never a mandate. He has been for decades (and continues to be) willing to pay for her to see, on her own and by herself, any therapist or other professional that she chooses in order to help her.
rozasharn From: rozasharn Date: December 9th, 2009 08:57 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

Furthermore, I notice that your LJ account was created yesterday, has never been used for anything else, and doesn't subscribe to Bellatrys on your Friends page.

We don't look too kindly on sockpuppets around here.
From: jlb2009 Date: December 9th, 2009 10:43 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

I am not familiar with the term "sockpuppet" nor really even with the moraes and etiquette of journals such as this, as I have never before posted on one.

Does that disqualify me from joining the conversation?

rozasharn From: rozasharn Date: December 10th, 2009 08:42 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

No, but when you're posting for the first time, it's polite to introduce yourself and mention how you found the site. As in, "Hi, I"m Jlb2009, and I'm visiting here from [other page that linked to this one, or because So-and-so recommended Bellatrys, or similar]."

And since you appear to know Bellatrys from other contexts, you should let her know who you are. You don't have to tell the rest of us your real name or location or anything, but she deserves to know who has turned up and started speaking to her under a new name. While you're logged into LiveJournal, you can use the private-message feature to send a private email to her.
hrafn From: hrafn Date: December 9th, 2009 09:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

Has he ever gone to see a therapist himself? Or considered it? Because otherwise, variations on "the problem is all in -your- head, it's all -your- bad behavior, if only -you- would change, things would be better," that's just another variation on the same-old same-old classic abusive behavior.
From: jlb2009 Date: December 9th, 2009 10:37 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

Yes, in fact, he has been seeing a therapist for years now, every other week, and she knows that.
hrafn From: hrafn Date: December 10th, 2009 01:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

I hope it has helped him.

And I also hope that he - and all y'all - understand that once you've lost a person's trust, it can be very hard to regain. Sometimes it can't. Sometimes therapy is incapable of fixing problems, even when the people involved want it to.

And people are under no obligation to spend time with, or accept help from, people they distrust or dislike, even if the dislike is as trivial as "I can't stand the occasional fart joke." Even if it's family.

Seems to me that the most respectful thing a person can do if another person indicates a strong disinterest in spending time in their presence is to leave them the hell alone.
shininghalf From: shininghalf Date: December 9th, 2009 11:53 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

Therapy is not some magic cure-all; only means as much as the results. If it hasn't made things better, it hasn't made them better, and it's not for the rest of us to tell a sufferer whether it has or not.

And it's easy to imagine how the offer could come across as very threatening and/or insulting.
From: jlb2009 Date: December 10th, 2009 12:41 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

For decades now, he has offered to help her get therapy, or any other kind of professional help that SHE CHOOSES, and not to be involved in it himself at all, if that is what she considers best for her.
nenya_kanadka From: nenya_kanadka Date: December 11th, 2009 05:08 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

You do realize that telling one's story and how one feels about it is and important part of counselling/therapy, right?

So brushing off Bellatrys's story told from her point of view with a sentence about how her father would be glad to take her to therapy rather smacks of "You should get your head examined, if your own chosen therapy leads you to think thoughts that make him look bad." Which is not something that comes across as good will.
parmalokwen From: parmalokwen Date: December 15th, 2009 06:41 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Seeking help

This is how that offer breaks down in a way that makes it unacceptable:
"I'll pay for"--Personal benefit to him: look how I'm rescuing my poor, mad daughter, out of my own pocket, aren't I a saint (throw money at a problem he himself caused and look virtuous for it to everyone he tells about it, insulting bellatrys and violating her privacy in the process)
"therapy"--Implication: you're crazy, and the problem's all in your head (insulting and untrue)
"of your choice"--Upcoming threat: and it'll be all your fault if it doesn't work (even though it does nothing to stop the root cause.)

Furthermore, just because he's seeing a therapist himself doesn't mean he's actively participating, and doesn't mean he's changing. He could be just paying the therapist to sit and listen while he whines about how messed up his life is. It does happen when the patient isn't as ready to make changes as he says (or even thinks) he is. Now I admit, I've no way of knowing the truth of that, but it's more to the point that bellatrys doesn't either, and given the way he's thoroughly shredded his credibility with her, ("the problem was always that he would say...") she has no way TO know, and no reason to believe.

So it's not so surprising if she hasn't taken him up on his offer, even if it is sincere, because she's got no reason to believe it's as nobly intended as it sounds to you.
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